A Round Up of the Situation in Greece.

Yesterday, this blog went mental.  With traffic approaching several thousand an hour, apologies to anyone who couldn’t get through.  The prompt for this was a post I wrote about the arbitrary arrest and detention of transgender people in Thessoliniki.  It was one of a few that I have written about the detention camps in Greece, and sometimes I feel like I simply shout into a vacuum, while people nod and move on.

At the time of writing, there are still floods of people coming to the blog – so while I have your attention….let me just do a little round up of the current situation in Greece at the moment.. The people who live in Greece are in a very difficult situation at the moment, and the more that people can do to raise international awareness put external pressurise both the Greek Government and the European Union to reverse some of the devastating policies of austerity and repression which are crippling the country the better.

The Paper Checks and Round Ups

Every day in Greece, particularly in the centres of large cities of Athens and Thessoliniki, police check the papers of dozens and sometimes hundreds people on the street, round the up and take them to police stations for processing.  They are marched chain gang style in a line, with the arms of the person behind on the shoulders of the person in front, flanked by police at the front back and sides.  The main victims of these roundups are migrants, however homeless people, drug users, women in the sex industry and now transgender people have also been targeted.   Sometimes, if their papers are in order, they will be released after a few hours, if there is a problem with their papers, or indeed even there isn’t, in the case of Greek citizens, they will be taken either to one of the main internment camps or held in one of the other holding facilities, without any form of trial or due process.

This short video from Human Rights Watch includes footage from the Hellenic Police which shows them overseeing detained people disembarking from a train destined to take them to a detention camp.

The Camps

There are six official main camps which officially house 5,000 people.  The government has announced that it is planning to double the capacity of these camps to 10,000 in the near future.  There are also an unknown number of unofficial camps holding an unknown number of people.  These camps are horrific.  Men, women and unrelated children are all held together sometimes crammed with three people per square metre with no mattresses or bedding,no washing facilities and sharing a toilet between 40.  None of these people have been charged with any offense, the vast majority have simply been unable to obtain the legal papers to be in the country, an arduous task in a country where the civil service is at the point of meltdown.

This short video is taken from the Pagani detention centre on the island of Lesbos, which shows the conditions in which people are being held.

The Slavery

There is slavery in Greece, actual real slavery, with actual real slave hands.  Where thousands of people are forced to work to harvest agricultural produce living in sheds made out of plastic sheeting with no running water or sanitation facilities. Although wages are initially promised, they are frequently not paid, and the workers are trapped in fear of both the gangmasters and the immigration authorities, unable to leave. Women are also held in rape houses, with the money paid to rape them going straight to their owners (yes, you heard me right, their owners). All this is done with the tacit approval of the Greek authorities who turn a blind eye. Should the workers get too uppity and start demanding what they are owed, they get shot.

This short video shows the aftermath when a farmhand opened fire on a crowd of 200 workers demanding their wages, 30 were injured, several seriously. (trigger warning)

The Parliamentary Fascists

The Golden Dawn are an openly neo-nazi party.  They are currently running third in the polls, higher PASOK, the party which formed the previous government. Their MPs carry guns, including in the parliament where they openly proclaim “Heil Hitler” and deny that the holocaust ever happened, last month one of their guns went off in Athens’ airport “accidentally”, fortunately no-one was injured. One of their MPs punched a left-wing MP live on television last year, with no consequences. Last month, another of their MPs burst into the offices of the Athens Mayor, attempted to assult him and pull his gun on him, before being subdued by security, a twelve year old girl was injured in the fracas.

The short video below shows security guards protecting the Mayor as the fascist MP attempt to assault him, you can clearly hear the security guards in the video telling the MP (in Greek) to put the gun away.

The Extra-Parliamentary Fascists

In addition to the fascists inside the parliament, outside the parliament, the fascist threat is growing. Two squares in Central Athens have become no-go areas for anyone non-Greek who is instantly attacked if they set foot in it. One of the squares, Attiki, is patrolled by two dogs which are trained to attack anyone non-white in the vicinity. Daily racist and homophobic attacks take place, sometimes by people who clearly identify themselves as members of the Golden Dawn. While members of the Golden Dawn in uniform patrol market places, demanding papers from stall holders and smash up the stalls of any who are not Greek.  In addition to the the Dawn, however there are also paramilitary fascists who are actively seeking to recruit.

This short video shows recruitment propaganda for the “Patriotic Militia” which urges Greeks to prepare for the “coming challenges”…

The Clampdown on the Press

If you are wondering how on earth all this could be going on in a European country without being on the front pages of major international newspapers, the lack of freedom of the press here, explains this in part.  What is ultimately behind all of this is the systematic theft from ordinary Greek people by international cartels and multi-national companies, but reporting on such gets you into serious trouble.  When Kostas Vaxevanis published the names of 2,000 major tax evaders, the so-called “Leguarde List”, including a number of prominent names, his arrest was swift, while those who report on the rise of fascism in the country risk serious beatings and the threat of losing their jobs.  Earlier this year, the government moved to shut down Indymedia Athens and Radio Bubble, two prominent independent news outlets which had been reporting on the situation.  On Wednesday this week they shut down ERT, the public broadcaster; passing a law in the morning to facilitate it; announcing that they were planning to close it at 6pm, announcing at 9pm that the signal would be cut off at midnight, and finally closing the channel at 11.30pm.

The staff have refused to accept this, and are currently occupying the building and continuing to broadcast via other means.  The quality has improved considerably, and people have gathered outside to demonstrate that they will not allow it to be taken over by the propaganda machine that the government has proposed as an alternative. This short video gives an overview of the situation at ERT and an insight into the determination of both the workers and the viewers not to allow its closure but instead to fulfill its mission to report what is going on accurately instead of under the government whip.

 

Bad things are happening in Greece. Very bad things. What I’ve posted above is just the tip of a very large and very horrible iceberg, which extends its tentacles deep into the police force and even civil society itself. With the measures which were agreed as part of the third bailout about to be imposed on a population, hungry and exhausted from five years of austerity, the temptation for looking for scapegoats close at hand when the troika, the bankers and the government seem so all-powerful, may well grow.

There is no way that I can possibly do justice to the situation in Greece at the moment in one short blogpost, but given the level of interest the previous one generated, I would hope that there were more people aware of the desperate situation that the people of Greece live in at the moment. And as ever it is the marginalised who suffer most. Not only trans folk, but migrants, drug users, women, children, unemployed people, gay men, lesbians, people in ill health and people with disabilities all face a very uncertain future.

The situation at ERT is current and ongoing: follow hashtags #ERT and #OccupyERT on twitter for live updates.  The only way that the nightmare that is currently engulfing Greece can be stopped is if people are both aware of the situation and determined to change it.  Getting information out is critical to that, and an independent public broadcaster is one of the ways in which that can be done.

When the people of Greece feel solidarity coming from people in other countries who will help them challenge the despotic governments who squandered their money and gave it away to bankers, multi-nationals and multi-millionaires, they will no longer be compelled to turn on one another to survive. And that is in all our interests, for what happens in Greece in the coming years will shape all Europe for a long time to come.

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80 comments
Care4U
Care4U

I love your blog a really good read...

ManolisPetropoulos
ManolisPetropoulos

Who is really responsible for all this that you say?

Have ever searched?

Why don't you ask you Germanized European Union, Rotschield, Jews Community, European Central Bank. The president of USA, our traitorish government. Globalisation. The big interrests. Everybodies stupidity. 

Have mercy. Please. You are looking at the tree and you are loosing the forest.

ManolisPetropoulos
ManolisPetropoulos

Who is really responsible for all this that you say? Have ever searched? Why don't you ask you Germanized European Union, Rotschield, Jews Community, European Central Bank. The president of USA, our traitorish government. Globalisation. The big interrests. Everybodies stupidity.  Have mercy. Please. You are looking at the tree and you are loosing the forest.

thedeviousdiva
thedeviousdiva

I live here in Athens and I am a woman of colour. I can assure you that there is no exaggeration of the horror of the situation here in Greece. I have been writing about the rise of Golden Dawn for about 7 years now. Very few people ever  thought it would come to this point where they have 18 "MPs" sitting in a democratic parliament. I can post a link to my blog if anyone here would be interested to read more about the immigration issues, human rights and Golden Dawn (amongst other things). Thank you for posting this and getting the word out. People have no idea how frightening, exhausting and sad it is to live in a place that you contribute to and to feel so unwanted and ignored. You are helping so much by letting people know. Thank you.

thedeviousdiva
thedeviousdiva

I live here in Athens and I am a woman of colour. I can assure you that there is no exaggeration of the horror of the situation here in Greece. I have been writing about the rise of Golden Dawn for about 7 years now. Very few people ever  thought it would come to this point where they have 18 "MPs" sitting in a democratic parliament. I can post a link to my blog if anyone here would be interested to read more about the immigration issues, human rights and Golden Dawn (amongst other things). Thank you for posting this and getting the word out. People have no idea how frightening, exhausting and sad it is to live in a place that you contribute to and to feel so unwanted and ignored. You are helping so much by letting people know. Thank you.

Nina
Nina

I just wanted to thank you and this site for the information I was able to acquire through it. I am shocked, horrified, but mostly scared by the picture presented here, however I am even more frightened (yet again) by how easy it is to keep this sort of facts hidden from the general public of the rest of the world. I am from Slovenia and am reasonably active on various social sites, where I keep track of world events as our media has over and over again proved to be totally useless in this regard, still the details of the actual scale and consequences of the upraise of fascism in Greece where completely unknown to me. I will do my best to pass this information on as it is completely unacceptable to allow such horror to go on unnoticed and uncommented. And when all described above is more publicly known, it will also be completely unacceptable for people to just stand by and observe. I have to believe that there is no need to remind people of similar situations in the past and the consequences of keeping quiet. All of the problems that Greece has have been allowed to escalate by the politics of their government and of course the European Union and basically all the world powers over decades. Around here such “strategy” is called “opening a tab without a bartender”, which means you make certain moves you are not sure about, but can make them in that moment, because the consequences will not be seen until later. If (or more correctly when) these consequences are then allowed to escalate to a point, where they are no longer manageable, that in itself does not justify cruel and inhumane quick fix-ups for these problems (which again only have a short term effect and produce a lot more grief than good and as is seen above can quite easily mutate into even greater atrocities).

Of course people of Greece are not to blame, of course the people targeted by the Greek government are not to blame, but most importantly of course this is completely wrong and must not be allowed to continue!

Nina
Nina

I just wanted to thank you and this site for the information I was able to acquire through it. I am shocked, horrified, but mostly scared by the picture presented here, however I am even more frightened (yet again) by how easy it is to keep this sort of facts hidden from the general public of the rest of the world. I am from Slovenia and am reasonably active on various social sites, where I keep track of world events as our media has over and over again proved to be totally useless in this regard, still the details of the actual scale and consequences of the upraise of fascism in Greece where completely unknown to me. I will do my best to pass this information on as it is completely unacceptable to allow such horror to go on unnoticed and uncommented. And when all described above is more publicly known, it will also be completely unacceptable for people to just stand by and observe. I have to believe that there is no need to remind people of similar situations in the past and the consequences of keeping quiet. All of the problems that Greece has have been allowed to escalate by the politics of their government and of course the European Union and basically all the world powers over decades. Around here such “strategy” is called “opening a tab without a bartender”, which means you make certain moves you are not sure about, but can make them in that moment, because the consequences will not be seen until later. If (or more correctly when) these consequences are then allowed to escalate to a point, where they are no longer manageable, that in itself does not justify cruel and inhumane quick fix-ups for these problems (which again only have a short term effect and produce a lot more grief than good and as is seen above can quite easily mutate into even greater atrocities). Of course people of Greece are not to blame, of course the people targeted by the Greek government are not to blame, but most importantly of course this is completely wrong and must not be allowed to continue!

Sara
Sara

This really should be in the news everywhere. Nothing can ever get better if people who are in the situation to help have no idea what's happening. There needs to be an international outcry to provoke an internal solution for Greece.

I watch the news and read the papers all the time, and I never heard about it until a friend posted this on facebook today. We in the US are campaigning for equality at home when we ignore civil rights abuses abroad. It's ridiculous.

Sara
Sara

This really should be in the news everywhere. Nothing can ever get better if people who are in the situation to help have no idea what's happening. There needs to be an international outcry to provoke an internal solution for Greece. I watch the news and read the papers all the time, and I never heard about it until a friend posted this on facebook today. We in the US are campaigning for equality at home when we ignore civil rights abuses abroad. It's ridiculous.

majorjessie4
majorjessie4

Are the victims given a trial before being placed in the camps?

majorjessie4
majorjessie4

Are the victims given a trial before being placed in the camps?

Anon
Anon

I'm Greek, and I totally hate it!

I'm planning to immigrate to a civilized country like Canada, or even Australia if I'm lucky enough, in the next three years, and leave everything Greek about me behind!

I will not even speak the Greek language in my home, I will change my Greek name, and every time someone will ask me where I am from, I will be ashamed to say! If I ever have kids, I will never teach them the Greek language, and I will even try to forget it myself!


I hate being here from the bottom of my heart, as well as being FROM here, and when I finally manage to leave, this place will never see me or hear from me again!

Anon
Anon

I'm Greek, and I totally hate it! I'm planning to immigrate to a civilized country like Canada, or even Australia if I'm lucky enough, in the next three years, and leave everything Greek about me behind! I will not even speak the Greek language in my home, I will change my Greek name, and every time someone will ask me where I am from, I will be ashamed to say! If I ever have kids, I will never teach them the Greek language, and I will even try to forget it myself! I hate being here from the bottom of my heart, as well as being FROM here, and when I finally manage to leave, this place will never see me or hear from me again!

unbridledmelody23
unbridledmelody23

I will share this blog with my almost 4000 facebook friends.  That being said I wanted to share an experience and journal entry my 16 yr old daughter wrote just 10 days ago.  First a brief back story...after years of saving I sent my only child, 16 yr daughter on an education trip to Europe this summer, 5 countries, England, France, Switzerland, Italy and Greece.  I was most excited to have her see and experience Greece.  As an American Family, we have never been overseas, nor have we travelled extensively.  My daughter had a wonderful time in the almost 3 week trip, culminating with the last stop in Greece.  We kept in touch everyday thru Facebook and she wrote a journal entry almost daily.  I will share her journal entry on Greece with all of you.  Keep in mind this is from the eyes of a 16yr old American girl on her first trip anywhere abroad.      

"Athens is heaving. Within the past few days the television and radio for most, if not all of Greece, was completely shut down; they have little connection to the outside world and the mainland of Europe, which has caused a general unrest in the city to turn into the mumbling beginnings of an uproar. There is graffitti everywhere, and just about all of it is political. It pleads to the people to wake up; to stop being slaves. It is the gracelessly elegant tattoo of the city's churl, displeasure, and desperation. The economy is all but shattered, and a staggering amount of the population is unemployed. The entire area spits and hisses at the precipice of total meltdown; of absolute and undeniable revolution. It is wild. It is hungry. It is fantastic. "

unbridledmelody23
unbridledmelody23

I will share this blog with my almost 4000 facebook friends.  That being said I wanted to share an experience and journal entry my 16 yr old daughter wrote just 10 days ago.  First a brief back story...after years of saving I sent my only child, 16 yr daughter on an education trip to Europe this summer, 5 countries, England, France, Switzerland, Italy and Greece.  I was most excited to have her see and experience Greece.  As an American Family, we have never been overseas, nor have we travelled extensively.  My daughter had a wonderful time in the almost 3 week trip, culminating with the last stop in Greece.  We kept in touch everyday thru Facebook and she wrote a journal entry almost daily.  I will share her journal entry on Greece with all of you.  Keep in mind this is from the eyes of a 16yr old American girl on her first trip anywhere abroad.       "Athens is heaving. Within the past few days the television and radio for most, if not all of Greece, was completely shut down; they have little connection to the outside world and the mainland of Europe, which has caused a general unrest in the city to turn into the mumbling beginnings of an uproar. There is graffitti everywhere, and just about all of it is political. It pleads to the people to wake up; to stop being slaves. It is the gracelessly elegant tattoo of the city's churl, displeasure, and desperation. The economy is all but shattered, and a staggering amount of the population is unemployed. The entire area spits and hisses at the precipice of total meltdown; of absolute and undeniable revolution. It is wild. It is hungry. It is fantastic. "

Wotans_Speer
Wotans_Speer

Pretty accurate article IMO. The dangers described above are real to everybody living here, and the ongoing economic crisis unleashed a lot of sceletons in the closet for many of my fellow greeks. It's always easier (but no excuse) to become seduced by nationalist propaganda when you are unemployed, as history has shown gain and again

I have only one remark. I didn't quite get why "gay men and lesbians...face a very uncertain future" as you say. Please elaborate on that as the article doesn't prove such claims. 

To me (as a resident of Greece) it seems that "gay men and lesbians" so far control a big pie of the media & entertainment industry (mostly television and the so called "free press"). 

There was even a "gay pride" parade some weeks ago here in Athens with no problems - except for the fact that nobody even noticed that event as most of the people have bigger problems (some of which were covered on this article) than parading about their "different" sexual orientation.

Wotans_Speer
Wotans_Speer

Pretty accurate article IMO. The dangers described above are real to everybody living here, and the ongoing economic crisis unleashed a lot of sceletons in the closet for many of my fellow greeks. It's always easier (but no excuse) to become seduced by nationalist propaganda when you are unemployed, as history has shown gain and again I have only one remark. I didn't quite get why "gay men and lesbians...face a very uncertain future" as you say. Please elaborate on that as the article doesn't prove such claims.  To me (as a resident of Greece) it seems that "gay men and lesbians" so far control a big pie of the media & entertainment industry (mostly television and the so called "free press").  There was even a "gay pride" parade some weeks ago here in Athens with no problems - except for the fact that nobody even noticed that event as most of the people have bigger problems (some of which were covered on this article) than parading about their "different" sexual orientation.

FinFin
FinFin

Guys you're exaggerating a little bit! 

FinFin
FinFin

Guys you're exaggerating a little bit!

LuluMejia
LuluMejia

People need to be aware of this sort of situations and prevent them before something major like the Holocaust happens. It's not the immigrant fault that Greece government is unable to pay their debts.

thedeviousdiva
thedeviousdiva

@ManolisPetropoulos I think the article, very fairly, puts the blame squarely on the Greek government for one particular issue; immigration and the rise of fascism. Greece has received millions of euros over the past decade or so and has done absolutely  nothing to address immigration in any way shape or form. The immigrant "issue" was here before the crisis and will be here long after when everyone has forgotten this present nightmare. No-one can blame Germany, the Jewish community (!!!!!?) or the USA for Greece's refusal to spend that money on a proper immigration system, transparent asylum service. integration programmes. The money was "lost" somewhere along the line and many, many Greeks benefitted from cheap labour etc etc. 


I think the first step towards change is recognising failure and Greece must recognise its total failure when it comes to immigration.  Only then can it start to put things right. It's not too late...yet. Conspiracy theories and blaming others is not working out too well as we can see in Greece right now. The party is over... time to clean up. You can't blame people who weren't even there for the mess.

thedeviousdiva
thedeviousdiva

ManolisPetropoulos I think the article, very fairly, puts the blame squarely on the Greek government for one particular issue; immigration and the rise of fascism. Greece has received millions of euros over the past decade or so and has done absolutely  nothing to address immigration in any way shape or form. The immigrant "issue" was here before the crisis and will be here long after when everyone has forgotten this present nightmare. No-one can blame Germany, the Jewish community (!!!!!?) or the USA for Greece's refusal to spend that money on a proper immigration system, transparent asylum service. integration programmes. The money was "lost" somewhere along the line and many, many Greeks benefitted from cheap labour etc etc.  I think the first step towards change is recognising failure and Greece must recognise its total failure when it comes to immigration.  Only then can it start to put things right. It's not too late...yet. Conspiracy theories and blaming others is not working out too well as we can see in Greece right now. The party is over... time to clean up. You can't blame people who weren't even there for the mess.

APotter
APotter

I'm white male, migrant from another EU country, living in Athens for the past 12 years. While few people I know are friendly and open minded, many Greeks are negative towards all sorts of immigrants and turn blind eye to everything that doesn't concern Greeks or Greece. Greek police is violent and often ridicule immigrants downtown for no reason. What bothers me is that even the Greek immigrants in the US or other countries feel negative about immigration in their own backyard. Hypocrisy much?
  Greeks must first become humble and understanding before see progress. Blaming immigrants for unemployment is hilarious. When I first came to Greece most young Greek people and women of all ages did not work. Everyone had their own business because nobody wanted to work for someone else and often would hire immigrants to do their job while they sunbathe on Santorini.
  I understand immigration is very serious problem for any country, especially a country like Greece but the xenophobia here is just too much. Combine both and you get a disaster, unrelated to politics or world crisis.

APotter
APotter

I'm white male, migrant from another EU country, living in Athens for the past 12 years. While few people I know are friendly and open minded, many Greeks are negative towards all sorts of immigrants and turn blind eye to everything that doesn't concern Greeks or Greece. Greek police is violent and often ridicule immigrants downtown for no reason. What bothers me is that even the Greek immigrants in the US or other countries feel negative about immigration in their own backyard. Hypocrisy much?   Greeks must first become humble and understanding before see progress. Blaming immigrants for unemployment is hilarious. When I first came to Greece most young Greek people and women of all ages did not work. Everyone had their own business because nobody wanted to work for someone else and often would hire immigrants to do their job while they sunbathe on Santorini.   I understand immigration is very serious problem for any country, especially a country like Greece but the xenophobia here is just too much. Combine both and you get a disaster, unrelated to politics or world crisis.

mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine

thedeviousdiva Thanks for your comment, I'd love a link to your blog if you would like to post it below.

mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine moderator

@Diane Sharp  Thank you for setting up the petition and for raising awareness of this.  I'll pass it around.

mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine

@Diane Sharp  Thank you for setting up the petition and for raising awareness of this.  I'll pass it around.

bhnnad
bhnnad

@Anon I don't think you should be ashamed. I am American but my mother's side is Cretan. There are so many positives about the Greek culture. You can choose to keep the parts you admire and drop the parts you don't. I've chosen to embrace the Greek tendency to value family, to be politically engaged and never take officials' words without research, to be loud and open with each other, etc. I am trying to learn some Greek, my family keeps in touch with the relatives back home, and I listen to Greek music and go to Greek dances. You can do all of this while still rejecting some of the negatives. (I for one reject the misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, and political paranoia I see in Greek culture). Don't cut your future children off from the positives in your quest to erase shame that you don't need to bear.

Otheranon
Otheranon

@Anon I'd say come to America, but we're slowly heading down a different, but still pretty awful path.

 Canada is wonderful, though.  I've never been to Australia, but Canada is absolutely beautiful (if you don't mind the cold).

And I agree with mhairimcalpine - don't be ashamed of being Greek.  Greek heritage is rich and the rest of the world isn't going to view you as some sort of fascist.  In fact, most people I know think of Greeks as warm, happy, boisterous, and cultural people, so don't let the people tearing your country apart win by making you ashamed of who you are and where you're from.

Best of luck with everything.

mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine moderator

@Anon 

Meh - dont be ashamed of being Greek.  You aren't responsible for what is done in your name.  Hell, I'm a UK national, and the UK has the blood of a million Iraqi civilians on its hands.  

All you can do is keep challenging it, from within Greece or outside - but keep the Greek language, language is important, it connects you (and any children you may have) to the wider diaspora.  Greece wont always be this way.  It fought off quite a number of despotic dictatorships in the 20th Century and I'm sure that it will eventually do the same again.

Otheranon
Otheranon

@Anon I'd say come to America, but we're slowly heading down a different, but still pretty awful path.  Canada is wonderful, though.  I've never been to Australia, but Canada is absolutely beautiful (if you don't mind the cold). And I agree with mhairimcalpine - don't be ashamed of being Greek.  Greek heritage is rich and the rest of the world isn't going to view you as some sort of fascist.  In fact, most people I know think of Greeks as warm, happy, boisterous, and cultural people, so don't let the people tearing your country apart win by making you ashamed of who you are and where you're from. Best of luck with everything.

mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine

@Anon  Meh - dont be ashamed of being Greek.  You aren't responsible for what is done in your name.  Hell, I'm a UK national, and the UK has the blood of a million Iraqi civilians on its hands.   All you can do is keep challenging it, from within Greece or outside - but keep the Greek language, language is important, it connects you (and any children you may have) to the wider diaspora.  Greece wont always be this way.  It fought off quite a number of despotic dictatorships in the 20th Century and I'm sure that it will eventually do the same again.

mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine moderator

@unbridledmelody23 

That is a amazing journal entry - so well written, and very much sums up Athens at the moment.  

If she had been here a few months earlier she would have seen even more political graffitti - the city has been on a cleanup mission in recent months.  She is very right there are a lot of rumblings under the surface here, and with the situation in neighbouring Turkey ongoing and sparked by what seemed like a routine removal of a few trees; where in Brazil, a rise in bus fares drew people out onto the streets, its unpredictable what will happen here and when.

But yes, she is also right that it is fantastic.


(btw, if you are wondering what the edit was, I tried to italicise the quote to make it stand out, but it didnt work)


mhairimcalpine
mhairimcalpine

unbridledmelody23  That is a amazing journal entry - so well written, and very much sums up Athens at the moment.   If she had been here a few months earlier she would have seen even more political graffitti - the city has been on a cleanup mission in recent months.  She is very right there are a lot of rumblings under the surface here, and with the situation in neighbouring Turkey ongoing and sparked by what seemed like a routine removal of a few trees; where in Brazil, a rise in bus fares drew people out onto the streets, its unpredictable what will happen here and when. But yes, she is also right that it is fantastic. (btw, if you are wondering what the edit was, I tried to italicise the quote to make it stand out, but it didnt work)

Wotans_Speer
Wotans_Speer

@LuluMejiaHolocaust?? Even in a scenario that all greeks turned suddenly into mad racist fascists, do you honestly believe modern day Greece has the power of the nazi Germany war machine to do something like that?

Dante Crosley
Dante Crosley

@Wotans_Speer @LuluMejia Germans didn't exactly have much power before the Holocaust. It was in an economic recession/depression, just as Greece is. It started out as persecution when Hitler took power, and began building tanks and war machines (and also camps). Hitler also attempted to take out people who ran against him (just as the neo-nazi's are punching their opponents, but it could lead to something worse). If a Germany that has to pay thousands of Marks for a loaf of bread could become a war machine, so could a Greece that is only in a recession.

Wotans_Speer
Wotans_Speer

@Dante Crosley@Wotans_Speer@LuluMejiaI am aware of the circumstances leading to WWII.
But what you are telling me is that the only factor for a becoming military superpower that threatens the power balance of the entire globe (as WWII Germany was/did) is to be on a recession? Nevermind the resources. 

We should be expecting Africa to opt for world domination any time soon then...

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